A conversation between Emily Nicholl and Ellen Renton
Recorded, edited & photographed by Nik Paget-Tomlinson

Ellen and Emily have been discussing approaches to making live performance specifically for and by blind and partially blind audiences.

In the following audio-zine Emily & Ellen share some of their thinking and discussions as they walk around a rather cold, frosty and crunchy-sounding Edinburgh one morning in December 2024.

“It’s very early in the morning, as the sun rises and the frost melts… What noises is the morning making?”

See time stamps, show notes and resources below alongside credits and photography from the day.

Transcripts

Wandering: on sight and sense-making (transcript) pdfDownload
Wandering: on sight and sense-making (transcript) docxDownload

Please email access@independentartsprojects.com if you require a transcript in alternative format.

Time stamps

00:00 – Introduction
01:23 – Beginning
02.30 – ‘What noises is the morning making?’
04:57 – ‘What does light feel like?’
06:25 – ‘How does your face feel?’
07:35 – Poem by Ellen Renton – ‘and so it starts…’
08:58 – Oatcake Factory, Relationship between urban and natural worlds
14:25 – Walking on a woodland floor, uneven surfaces
16:14 – ‘Does that feeling have a colour’?
18:35 – Dance by Emily Nicholl – ‘I’m going to try making a dance here,’ 
19:37 – Circus ‘for me circus and dance is such a relational thing to do…’
21:22 – Being in the round
24:12 – Being connected or disconnected from our senses
28:20 – Your body, your senses, your brain.
28:54 – When my eyes are throwing a tantrum
30:23 – [Sudden whirring mechanical noise] 
31:01 – [More sudden whirring mechanical noises]
31:05 – ‘My favourite watery noise is…’
31:20 – The pond – a frozen muddy mess
32:48 – ‘What matters to you in a really positive theatre experience?’ – Access and audiences
38:23 – When disabled people and non-disabled people are on the creative team
39:56 – Dismantling the hierarchy of the senses
42:21 – Celebrating all the many ways in which people gain and make knowledge about the world – valuing sense making 
44:17 – Questioning structures which seek to dominate or which place more value on one way of being
41:56 – Access riders and designing with flexibility
45:56 – Unpicking internal ableism, resisting individualism – care and having needs
48:37 – Beyond the Visual Symposium and turning the hierarchy of the senses on its head
50:22 – A list of possible open questions or provocations – not a checklist. 
55:17 – End credits

Show notes and resources

People mentioned during the conversation:

  • Tourettes Hero
    www.touretteshero.com
  • Caroline Bowditch – Performance artist, choreographer, artistic director –  www.carolinebowditch.com
  • Dr Georgina Kleege – Blind academic, writer and professor of English at the University of California. She is author of More Than Meets the Eye: What Blindness Brings to Art. New York: Oxford University Press, 2018

Places to learn more about blindness/visual impairment, disability, and ableism

Places to engage with disabled-led art/arts

This conversation was recorded in December 2024, but now cannot be separated from the disabled-led campaign against the government’s proposed welfare cuts:

All struggles are interconnected and the genocide in Palestine is a disability justice issue

About the artists

Ellen Renton (she/her) is a poet, performer, and theatre maker from Edinburgh. She is particularly excited by finding the places where poetry can intersect with other art forms: she released the collaborative album My Noise is Nothing with DJ Lord of the Isles,  the animation AISLE for BBC Culture in Quarantine with artist Jess Fig, and the short film What Athena Saw When Tiresias Looked with filmmaker Douglas Tyrrell Bunge.  She is the writer of one-woman show Within Sight, and the 2023 Stellar Quines production Disciples, co-directed with Rachel Drazek. She has been awarded an Emerging Scottish Literature Residency at Cove Park, an Imaginate Jerwood Fellowship, and an artist associateship with the Edwin Morgan Trust and Disability Arts Online. She has recently been awarded an Unlimited and Imaginate partner award to support the creation of a new musical for blind and visually impaired young audiences. https://ellenrenton.co.uk

Emily Nicholl (she/her) is an Edinburgh born multidisciplinary arts worker interested in our varying sensory and political relationships with the outdoors, and the overlapping roles of artist, neighbour, citizen, friend. With a background in circus arts, her work often deals with notions of shared solidarity, drawing from her experiences of what circus can teach us about sharing weight. She has worked internationally on award winning projects ranging from outdoor performance to intimate theatre, as dancer, acrobat, aerialist, rigger, stage manager, producer, puppeteer, creative assistant, support worker, photographer. She lives with chronic health conditions, aiming to declutter ableism from a wildly fluctuating relationship with her own body. She holds an MA (Distinction) in Art and Social Practice, trained at Flic Scuola di Circo, Torino, and grows flowers in her shared back green. https://emilynicholl.com

Nik Paget-Tomlinson (he/him) is a musician, composer, sound designer and Foley artist who creates work for theatre, dance, installation, film and listening. He has performed live with various bands and musicians and has had record releases in Europe and the USA. Nik is part of The Grim Collective with Jack Hunter, was a founder member of trip hop collective 3 Bag Brew, and formed electronica duo Puchi with Niroshini Thambar. He has performed live with various bands and musicians including The Katet, Niki King, Nuns n’ Moses and Bogus. As composer and sound designer Nik has worked with a wide range of theatre and dance companies including National Theatre of Scotland, Citizens Theatre, Grid Iron, Dundee Rep, Independent Arts Projects, A Play a Pie and a Pint, Royal Lyceum Edinburgh and Imaginate. Credits include: Snake in the Grass (Dundee Rep), The Guns of Johnny Diablo (A Play, a Pie and a Pint), One of Two (Independent Arts Projects), Moonset (Citizens Theatre), Wickies: The Vanishing Men of Eilean Mor (Paul Morrissey, Christopher Wheeler, Molly Morris), Rocket Post (Constellation Points), Doppler (Grid Iron Theatre Company), Niqabi Ninja (Independent Arts Projects) and Revolution Days (Bijli Productions). For more info please visit: http://www.nikpt.com

With thanks to:

This work was made possible with funding from Creative Scotland through the National Lottery Extended Programme Fund that provided key support to Independent Arts Projects for a number of projects between October 2023 and March 2025.

Some photos from the walk, taken by Nik Paget-Tomlinson…

Two figures stand at the top of a hill, they are dressed in winter gear - woollen coats, mittens and hats. There are woods further down hill and the sky is pale blue with some yellows from the rising winter sun.
Two figures walk away from the camera. They are walking along frosty looking grass in boots, hats, coats and towards the rising sun. The sky is blue, yellow and orange with some wispy clouds.
Two figures walk away from the camera. They are walking along frosty looking grass in boots, hats, coats and towards the rising sun. The sky is blue, yellow and orange with some wispy clouds.
Two figures to the left of the frame and woodland. They are walking amongst trees and a low winter sun can be seen coming through the trees.
Two figures walk away from the camera. They are walking along frosty looking grass in boots, hats, coats and towards the rising sun. The sky is blue, with some wispy clouds.
Two figures walk away from the camera. They are walking through autumnal-looking woodland in boots, hats, coats and towards the rising sun. The sky is blue.
Two figures stand to the right of the frame in a panoramic view of a frosty hill. They are in boots, hats, coats and towards the rising sun. The sky is blue, yellow and orange with some wispy clouds.